This post is political and I'm feeling pretty riled up--my friend and I volunteered with the Obama campaign today at our local farmer's market to help get people to register to vote (it was set up as a non-partisan table so we hid our Obama pins :P).
It felt good to be involved, but it was depressing to hear so many people say things like, "Oh, I won't vote because I don't get into politics" or "I don't want to vote because I don't care" or "I don't want to register because it doesn't matter anyway" or "The President doesn't run things; a higher power does so I'm not messing with voting" or "My vote doesn't count" or "It's not a big deal" or "You think our President runs this country?! He doesn't so it doesn't matter!" Ignorant comment after ignorant comment. It was depressing. The woman at the jewelery shop to one side and the man at the flower shop to the other side gave us understanding faces and rolled their eyes and shrugged their shoulders, both telling us later that they're Obama supporters and that it's just sad to see such ignorance and blatant dismissal of such a privilege for which so many in our world long. Vote for who you will, but the point is VOTE. And if you don't vote, keep your complaints to yourself afterward.
Anyway, I'm not big into Hollywood types waxing political, especially if they're uneducated themselves, but I have no problem with a Hollywood type voicing his opinion, especially when he is as clued in as Matt Damon (plus, I think this clip is also kind of funny):
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I can't access the clip because our connection is too slow. BUT, that is crazy about people who feel like voting is a waste of time. It is funny because it is usually these people who complain when things don't go right.
Also, what do you think of Palin? I don't know much (everything is so filtered here) but she seems like and unconventional choice for the White House. I am conflicted cause I seem to like her and Obama. Maybe we could get them to run together?
I can't stand Palin. No, no, no, they could never run together--WAY too different. She believes the war is "a task from God" and she is a total political ploy for the Republicans. She tried to use her Alaska political status to ban/censor books in her local library (that one really riles me). I agree with Matt Damon--it's downright frightening that she's seriously in a position one heartbeat away from being "President Palin" *especially* when running with McCain!! It's absurd. It's scary. It's like someone's painting a bullseye on the U.S.
How's that for unbiased? ;)
That actually made me laugh out loud. I don't agree, but it made me laugh. Love Matt Damon.
Funny, I had another friend post this same Matt Damon clip, but for very different reasons. :)
It is sad that there are so many people who feel like their votes don't matter. I admit that sometimes I feel that way, too, but I still vote. I wonder how different things would be if all those non-voters actually voted. Hmmm...
I'm posting just because I like to argue. I know I'm not the brightest guy when it comes to politics but as I get older I try to follow it a little more each year. Living in Utah I honestly believe that my vote doesn't matter. If I vote Democrat, Republican, or not at all; my vote won't make a difference. By saying this am I now part of the ignorant group? If I choose not to vote on this election does that mean I can't complain when in my eyes the President makes the wrong decision? I don't think that just because you vote you get an extra special privilege of complaining.
Does Palin have a case of the Crazies? Absolutely. Is Obama a manchurian candidate? I think so. So if McCain wins and Palin needs to take over we have a crazy person as President. But if Obama wins, we don't know who is running the country. But at least we'll look good while Obama stumbles with the teleprompter. The guy doesn't even think for himself. But hey if Matt Damon likes him then so do I. Can I get a Damon/Pitt in 2012!
I guess for me assessing the value of an individual vote is key. The value of that one vote was high enough to compel so many individuals to fight for the right for everyone--gender, race, economic status, etc. aside--to cast that individual vote. For me getting the chance to voice my opinion, no matter how overwhelmed it may be, is a way to reaffirm my belief in a democratic republic. Is our government perfect? No. But I'm still grateful to have the chance to use my one voice to say something. And no, my vote doesn't buy me the special privilege of complaining, but it does offer a solution rather than just problems.
As for the "manchurian candidate," I don't think most Americans truly know any candidate personally enough to assess their hearts or intentions. Hindsight has taught us what 8 years of string-pulling really look like and I haven't seen evidence on either side to suggest puppeteering to the same extent that has existed in the Bush White House. If we're being honest, two-party politics handcuffs even the best of candidates because of national political platforms and pressures. In the end we have to sort out the facts and fiction (and there is A LOT of fiction in the media) and then use our hearts and minds to make an informed choice.
Dr. Mark -
I appreciate the politically correct response. Are you thinking about a career in politics? For me it's a choice of the lesser of two evils. I won't get into it unless you or Stacy want to argue over politics. You know how I love to argue even if I don't believe my argument.
No, no career in politics for me. Sadly the system is broken to the point that the day of the "common man" really being able to play a major role in the national political scene is getting more and more distant, at least in my opinion.
My initial attraction to Obama as a candidate is his fresh ideals. I believe it's more important for the president to have a guiding set of principles than a lot of specifics, although some idea of specific plans is helpful. I truly get the sense Obama is a brilliant man who will select other bright minds to form a well functioning administration. His life as I have learned more about it has been one of introspection and he wants to see America as individual citizens succeed. I don't agree with all of his domestic policies but I think his overall direction is good. I'll leave the political discussion at that since I just had yoga class this morning and I'm still feeling fairly relaxed. ;)
Okay boys, now it's 10pm EST. Go back to debating--it's fun to read! :P
By the way, commenters, I have another funny one to post.
Oh what a debate! Love it. In some ways, ignorance is bliss out here. The only thing I can say is that it has been interesting being outside the states during such and interesting time. It is hard to watch it fall, as it has. I am worried about the economy, I am concerned about the war, I am unsettled about its future.
I am not naive enough to think that the President will make all the calls for America's future. There are a lot more influential people within the government that seem to push us in the direction we are going. I look at the President as more of an ambassador, which is why Bush failed miserably.
I've tried to read up on the candidates here but the information we receive usually swings drastically in one direction or the other. I feel like no matter what we get here it isn't the whole story. I will vote but I definitely won't be an 'informed citizen'. Sucks.
Keep the dialogue going. I love this.
Heheheh, Terah, that's Mark's brother Greg debating with him. I really like Greg and I enjoy this, too. :)
You said: "I look at the President as more of an ambassador, which is why Bush failed miserably."
Exactly! I don't think of the President as having to know and do everything (that's just not how it works), so when people give their anti-Obama arguments, it doesn't bother me. I like his fresh new look on things even though I don't completely agree with him. I'm inspired by him as a leader and God knows our country can use a good one. And I feel confident with him as a representative to the world--he's exactly the kind of person I want representing our country and getting us back on the world map. (And the alternative is downright frightening really and more of the same).
Call me ignorant (lots of people do) but what in the world are you talking about (referring to Bush and puppeteering, if that's even a word)?
The simple answer is: Karl Rove.
One of the only decisions during Bush's 8 years in the White House that was obviously his was the decision to rid the world of Saddam Houssain. During his campaign in 2000 I already predicted we'd be at war sooner rather than later. Most of his other policies seem to be heavily influenced, or even determined, by strong personalities with specific political agendas. If you start looking into those with whom Bush surrounded himself you start to understand where a lot of our policies came from. You also start to realize why good people like Colin Powell didn't want to sign on for 4 more years.
Good post! It's good that you got involved and I agree that it's a big shame that SO many people refuse to vote in our country. (And yet we look around the world and see that people are still - STILL - risking their very LIVES to have the opportunity to vote and yet we Americans "poo poo" our rights).
Personally, I'm looking forward to the debates. I'm tired of the rhetoric and what this talking head or that talking head has said. I want to hear EACH of the 4 candidates get up and say, speciically, what they are going to do about the issues that affect MY life. I already know who I'm going to vote for (at least, I'm reasonably certain), but I still want to hear the debates.
Okay, I thought I was done but I got sucked back in by a couple of comments.
First, "I will vote but I definitely won't be an 'informed citizen'. Sucks." What's worse, someone who is informed but chooses not to vote or someone who isn't informed and blindly votes?
Second, "we look around the world and see that people are still - STILL - risking their very LIVES to have the opportunity to vote and yet we Americans "poo poo" our rights." Correct me if I am wrong but... doesn't that opportunity to vote also mean that we can choose not to vote. Even after researching all the issues, if decided that neither candidate is right don't I have the right note to vote as a way of showing I don't believe either candidate is right for the job?
Finally, just for you Stacy, "I don't think of the President as having to know and do everything (that's just not how it works)." I'm glad we can agree that Obama doesn't know everything. Else why did Obama refuse to debate McCain in a simple "town hall" format?
Those are just some of my ignorant thoughts. Take them as you will.
When I say 'uninformed citizen' I am explaining that I am at the mercy of the filtered information I received THOUSANDS of miles away. My circumstance does not allow me to turn on the television to observe every debate or discuss the issues with my neighbours. That is simply my situation and nothing will change that.
HOWEVER, before I do vote, I will make an honest effort to research the facts as much as I can. When I cast my vote, I know I will not be fully informed as most Americans because how can I? As ubiquitous as technology and current events are these days, I am still unable to fully engage in all the heated issues as most headlines are discussing the abolishment of a king and new government here. I can't blame them for putting American politics on the back burner.
So, I will be as informed as I can be and I will make the choice that I feel is best, according to me and my family. I am displaced, not ignorant. The idea is for me to vote. That is the point and always will be.
Ooooooh, a heated debate! Who called Greg ignorant? Did I? I didn't think anyone did. (Oh, but this is fun!)
Having the opportunity to vote is a privilege and it seems a real shame to not use it. A painful shame. If neither of the 2-party candidates do it for you, find another one or write someone in. But vote for someone! You have a privilege to have your say. It just seems sad to waste that.
Ditto on the debates--SO excited for those. I think the VP ones will be especially entertaining. If Palin is nervous, she could just send in Tina Fey!
I would like everyone to know that I have not referred to anyone as ignorant. I'm simply enjoying playing devils advocate. However, just because a US citizen is living abroad during the election doesn't mean they don't have the same access to information. The Internet can give you just as much information overseas as we get here in the US. Just take your favorite news outlet and place it between www. and .com. I can understand that it might be difficult to talk to your neighbors about the election but just through this blog we have discussed quite a bit. Hit up a few more blogs and voila, you're talking to your e-neighbors. Once again I'm not taking personal shots... yet.
No one directly called me ignorant. I'm just saying that if someone chooses not to vote, or says they don't care, or believes their vote doesn't really matter, etc. It doesn't not make them ignorant. Will I vote? I'll never tell. It's great that people are passionate about voting but they shouldn't try to guilt, force, or whatever just to vote.
There are a lot of things that are privileges but that doesn't mean we should, or have to act on them. It's a privilege to have children but not everyone who can, should. That's not the best example but I think you know what I'm getting at.
There's a good discussion here that presenting both sides of the argument -- to vote or not to vote. I haven't read all of it, but it's good so far.
Er, let's try that again.
There's a good discussion here that [i]presents[/i] both sides of the argument -- to vote or not to vote. I haven't read all of it, but it's good so far.
(Okay, the link is in the prior comment. This is just for good grammar). :)
Greg, my friend Lynette lives in Chile right now and she is limited with her information as well. A lot of sites won't let you access the videos and other info if you're not in the US.
This is not Rebecca but Shawn. I must interject and comment on Matt Damon's statements. (Love his movies, but his political views, not so much.) First, his taped comments are replete with contradictions. His primary premise is that Sarah Palin scares him because he does not know who she is. Indeed, she has been much maligned for her apparent lack of political experience. However, when one considers her political background to Obama's background, it is easy to discover that Sarah Palin actually has more political experience than does Obama. (Interestingly, until Joe Biden joined th Obama ticket, political experience was considered a liability.) Once discovery, Matt Damon loses all credibility and his comments must be rejected.
Palin was first elected to office in 1992 when she was elected to city council. Trust me, not every city council member is fit for the highest office in the country, but neither is a community organizer (I could address that topic in another post). She was elected mayor in 1996 where she served until 2002. She ran, unsucessfully for lieutenant governor in 2003 and was elected Governor of Alaska in 2006. During roughtly that same period of time, Obama was serving as a state senator from 1997 through 2003. Barack was elected to the Senate in 2004 and has served there until the present.
As you can see, there is very little difference in the political background and experience between Obama and Palin. However, Barack has been a media darling since he announced his candidacy, which I think occurred sometime during the Carter administration, didn't it?)
So, whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, please demonstrate intellectual honesty in our reviews of the candidates. Comments such as Matt Damon's (who is also a Harvard "almost grad") add little to any substantive conversation regarding the candidates and the issues. He does little more than inject hyperbole into an election; hyperbole that, when examined, fails to convey any real, substantive analysis and is devoid of any worthwhile content. Holding fast to his comments and rationale is the equivalent of preaching from the Book of Limbaugh as if it was gospel.
Love his movies though!
There might be some site restrictions but come on... it's the Internet. If you really wanted to find information you can.
I don't know who Shawn is but thank you for attempting to bring some balance to this post. Good luck.
My friend once asked, "Wouldn't you rather have the #2 learn foreign policy from the #1 rather than the other way around?"
To which I said:
See, I don't have a problem with the #1 being a great leader and orator who has passion and vision and can affect people the way Obama does. I've never had a problem with it. I think that's exactly the kind of leader our country and world needs, especially in terms of our standing on the world map. So long as he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people, I have absolutely no problem with it. In fact, I like the idea of an untainted leader (not that he's totally unspotted, but he's not a backroom good, 'ol boy). So, I welcome that. In fact, that's one of the biggest selling points for me on him. People can call it what they will--"empty suit," etc.--but I'm not bothered by it. He has experience, albeit not as much as some of the other candidates, but it's enough for the job and he's smart enough and down-to-earth enough and genuine and articulate and REAL enough (and yes maybe even idealistic enough) to inspire people and be our representative with foreign leaders all the while surrounding himself with bright minds who know what to DO about wars, the economy, and foreign policy.
I don't think he's flawless. I don't think he's perfect. I don't agree with all his policies. But I do believe in his sincerity and intelligence and vision. And that's enough for me.
So I thought I'd post that here, to be clear on my stance. ;) And because I like to argue with Greg.
If any of us used Matt Damon as our primary source of political information I'd be a bit concerned. Unfortunately there are people out there that look to celebrities for their "news." Even more unfortunate is the fact that the most "available" (read--intrusive) forms of media aren't much better than obvious celebrity opinion. People tend to gravitate to news sources that validate their own opinions to some extent. The real challenge is to try to filter through all of the information out there and then form an educated opinion.
McCain's challenge to a town hall style setting for a debate was an obvious attempt to call the shots. McCain is far more comfortable in a smaller arena and even had the RNC change the stage for his acceptance speech to resemble a town hall setting. His was a preemptive strike of sorts, and I can't blame Obama for wanting a more traditional debate set up--it has nothing to do with issues and everything to do with staging. And that is national politics in a nutshell.
I think the "experience" card has been overdone. The Dems beat each other up over it and then the Reps started attacking Obama over the same issue. McCain nominates someone with very limited experience that is valid, but not as relevant as they'd like it to seem, so now "experience" is in play. I stand by what I said earlier: if you can surround yourself with people who understand their realm of expertise you can start to piece together a cooperative government that starts to build consensus rather than steamroll your own ideas in an authoritarian fashion.
Stacy -
I'm fairly intelligent and know many people smarter than me. I'm decent looking and not a good 'ol boy. I keep it real all the time. I don't have any skeletons in the closet which might taint my good image. Oh yeah, I have not one, but two suits which I look good in. I guess that makes me as qualified as anyone else to "run" the country.
But are you a community organizer? :P
Mark -
So what you're saying is the Obama can't read from his note cards and needs a teleprompter.
It depends on what you consider a community organizer. I organized several open gym basketball games. I organized a community of fantasy football leagues. I'm part of the Party Planning Committee. I think this more than shows my community organizing skills.
Hmmmm, okay I'll consider writing you in on Election Day but you have to give your acceptance speech here and we get to hold Emmy.
Your profile picture might be the skeleton in your closet.
The profile picture just shows what a family man I am. I take great pride in finger puppet time. Good luck trying to hold Emmy. She's too much of a busy-body to let anyone hold her for more than a minute.
How's that going to work in the White House?
How's what going to work in the White House? Me continuing to be awesome at finger puppet time or Emmy being a busy-body? I guess it doesn't matter either way. If Bush can visit Crawford anytime he likes and if Clinton found time for extra-marital activities, I can find time for whatever.
Oh well then. I'm sold. You've got my vote!
I'm glad we've had this discussion. I've been enlightened. :)
Okay- can I add something? My problem is with people loving these "new ideals." Everyone has ideals- pretty much the same ideals as everyone else. I think everyone shares these ideals. The problem is are they realistic? And if they are then Obama needs to have a workable plan to show us how what he is going to try is different from what other countries, or ours, have unsuccessfully attempted. It's all "Feel Good Economics" and those don't change anything but everyone feels good talking about how much they want things to change while in reality they can't do a thing they are promising.
disclaimer- my kids are crawling all over me so I'm not sure if it's coherent enough but I don't want to start over...
Holy Comments, Batman! Good stuff.
Okay, I will bite. First, no one called me ignorant. I am just like throwing that word out there during these types of discussions. It always stirs things up. But second, if one was ignorant, it still does not take away their right to vote. I admit it is important to be an informed citizen; however, it is not required. The right to vote is given to all, whether you have a PhD or an IQ of 90. It can, and should be, exercised by all US citizens. That is what people have died for. So in response to that question, whether you are informed, or uninformed, you are given that right and no one can take that away.
Also, since you think I have the same access as everyone else, I can tell you have never lived in Nepal or any other third world country. At best, we are without electricity 46 hours a week during prime time. As a result, I am not able to check the Internet very often. To say I have the same access to information is ridiculous. We have no TV and most, if not all, newspapers are in Nepali. So that argument holds little weight in this debate.
Finally, this is not personal. I also like to play devil's advocate every now and then. I have yet to make a full commitment on one candidate. That is why this intrigues me.
Nice to meet you Mr. Foltron.
Add away, Lena! All are welcome!
And Terah, well said.
I'm sad that Mr. Foltron hasn't come out to play today. :(
Shawn took his political arguments into a side email and we've been going at it via email--fun stuff! I love a good debate with intelligent people!
I have not come out to play today because some co-workers have been abusing their right to the internet at work so I've been laying low at work. From what it sounds like, even third world countries have access to the internet. Obviously there are constraints that allow significant "surfing" time. However, it's not like there's something new in the political arena every day. I bet if you chose two articles a week from the limited time and resources a third world country offers you would be as up to date as anyone else. The only thing that changes on a daily basis is the comedy stylings of Jon Stewart and the lovely Stephen Colbert.
Holy cow, what happened?!)! I just went out for a sandwich and a Mountain Dew, and this place BLEW UP with comments?! :-)
Seriously, though, isn't that what this country is ABOUT? The great debate?! I think it's great that we can all openly debate, disagree and voice our opinions.
And, bonus, we don't have to worry about Kim Jong Il or any of his henchman hauling us off for what we have said here.
Cool beans!
(Stacy and Mark - break out the Pink Spoons for everyone!)
:-)
Ah yes, a Baskin Robbins Celebration! :P
I love Jon Stewart. This is one of my recent favorites.
To continue the debate . . .
I'm annoyed with BOTH candidates for being okay with this STUPID bailout nonsense. And I don't like either of their "fixes" for health care.
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